How to Build Desire in Luxury and Property Markets w. Giverny Reid

James Lawrence: Welcome back to the Smarter Marketer Podcast. I'm here today with Giverny Reid. Giv, welcome to the pod.

Giverny Reid: Thanks for having me.

James Lawrence: For those of you that don't know, Giv is Director and Founder at creative property marketing firm &Only. Prior to that she was the creative and marketing director at Crown Group for well over a decade where we crossed paths in 2022. She snagged the title of Marketer of the Year from realestate.com au, which we're laughing off air.

She said she literally snagged it because she was almost in labour on the way to the hospital for I was

Giverny Reid: on the way to the hospital.

James Lawrence: That's a great, a great story. She's also been a finalist in the B&T Under 30 Design Category and many many more accolades across your very impressive career Giv.

So wanted to get you onto the pod today to have a discussion around building demand and marketing in high-end markets. You've obviously got so much experience working in high-end property, but I think your experience is also broader than that. , it's a niche area, but a , really important one and a growing one,

so in terms of, I guess, where to start and frame the conversation, like what sets high-end markets like property and luxury goods apart from, , mass market consumer segments and what have you seen working in the space over the year, over the years, and what your learnings have been.

Giverny Reid: , it's a really good question and it's one that can also, , somewhat blur between the lines because

at the end of the day, property still a multimillion dollar decision versus a Birkin that's, you know, 30, 50 k and growing in value. Both, , assets, they're commodity products, , but they essentially do the same things whereby they sell a sense of status, their sense of belonging, , so.

Luxury when you talk about either or, isn't it about a need, , it's more or less about a craving , and a sense of longing. And I guess our role as marketers when it comes to marketing is creating that story, , which kind of captivates, exclusivity, opulence, and the overall, , word fomo as well.

So, , we are essentially. Pioneers in creating, , a blend of substance and story, , which engages our consumers to, , want something that's not particularly, , easy to obtain. . And , it makes it quite challenging at the best of times, but it's definitely, , an exciting process and journey to work with in crafting that story.

, whether it be through , the legacy of the brand as such, and in properties case a developer, , and then ensuring that that's . Expanded upon in multiple touch points through the marketing journey, , and very much elevated to be tailored to our consumers as well for that particular product.

James Lawrence: It's so interesting, isn't it? In some ways , it's not that logical where I think often as marketers in . Broader fields with marketing to rationality. , you have to be price competitive.

On the B2B side, we're still selling rationality, even though a lot of the time decision makers are making decisions based on, well, I don't wanna lose my job if I'm, you know, putting the wrong CRM or the wrong rp, but luxury is so different and, , it's almost the inverse, like we're not.

You're not selling a product, you're selling status emotion, a feeling, something that's unattainable. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, , quite a contrary way of thinking about marketing.

Giverny Reid: Yeah. You bang on like, luxury isn't logical, it's honestly visceral. Yeah. Like the best brands tap into deep seated emotions and aspirations and basically they're the trigger points, which again, create , that world that you wanna be part of.

James Lawrence: , um, despite how I started the conversation, it's not like , all of the decisions we're making, more simple spaces aren't also driven by emotional drivers and things that aren't completely rational.

'cause the market isn't very rational a lot of the time. But what are some of those key demand drivers, , when it comes to luxury marketing and luxury markets?

Giverny Reid: The most obvious one would probably be rarity, you know? Mm-hmm. Rarity feeds, desire, if everyone has it, I guess more or less, no one wants it.

Yeah. , so making it more, um, difficult to obtain to some extent, , can make it more desirable. Yeah. , again, like I mentioned, , and particularly again, relating back to property, what we're seeing is reputation is everything, . Prior to Covid and even like, um, GFC and things like that, we could release more or less one marketing asset and obtain an influx of interested parties and buyers.

And we are seeing now, . That it's less about, okay, , this, , amenity or this incredible, um, development. It's more about who is the developer, how long have they been around for, what is their, , pipeline and strike rate when it comes to actually building and seeing through on the project.

And, . The entire journey is more or less being flipped on its head as a result. So it, it's quite interesting now for us to, , pitch as marketers more the focus on the legacy component versus the product being, , secondary. , but at the same time, luxury needs its complete ecosystem. So it's one thing to have, , a masterfully kind of curated brand and, , express to our buyers through video and other content creation, , the craftsmanship, the process and so forth. But we wanna also ensure that that is seamlessly, , applied across all platforms as well. , not just around who you are buying from.

I don't know if you saw yesterday or the day before, TikTok blowing up around revealing all the luxury, , brands out there and how they're being manufactured in China. And one thing that they're really pushing is the fact that, , you could more or less obtain the exact same.

Replica handbag or luxury product for a fraction of the price. Everything down to the oils that they use in the leathers and the process and everything. What you are essentially paying for is that brand. Mm. And brands like Hermes, again, using a Birkin as an example because of how much it grows in value over time and so forth.

But it is. More or less the same product. So people are really drawn to brands and being part of, , that brand story as well. , more so than the product itself.

James Lawrence: It is so interesting looking from the outside in on this space and I think it is difficult to mount an argument, even though I can appreciate that something made in Europe and made of these particular materials and whatever else versus something made in Vietnam or China.

If it does have the same, , materials and effort put into it, there's not a 15 x difference right, between just the actual, , craftmanship put into to the product itself. But we had, , Dan, um. Previously of Hard Hat, who's now at Think Bell, , on the podcast recently, and he was just talking around behavioral psychology and us as marketers, how, , the different way that we can, , manipulate might be the wrong word, but use these devices to our benefit. And he talked a lot about the effort, bias , across the board. And we see that in this space, right, where you are looking at craftsmanship and it's the Swiss watch that's made by hand and it's the story of whatever it might be.

The Birken, I presume the story there is that it's handmade in Europe. It is looking at the heritage , and , the handmade nature of these things.

And then the providence, right? Something made in Italy or made in France carrie's more cash than something that's been made in Vietnam, made in China when objectively, I think the gap between the two , there's clearly, as you say, factors that play around brand and storytelling and feeling and expression that allow that price premium to be charged.

Giverny Reid: I think, yeah, just in a nutshell, legacy and credibility. Don't just add value to a brand, , it defines it. So it's , as you say, what is the key factors that really drive luxury marketing? And it's definitely that and creating that. And look, there is plenty of brands who haven't got a long history line or haven't, , been passed down by Nonna.

, Jacque Moose, which is, , a French brand that I think it only came in mid two thousands, has absolutely blown up in the fashion industry again for, , really, , creating brand awareness in such a unique and distinctive way. But. It feels like the brand's been around for a long time.

And then there's other brands where, , they have been around for a while, such as le and they basically are trying to use the current market and particularly a younger market on TikTok. And, , I guess focusing on products that. They could potentially purchase so that they build up, I guess , this want and this need to obtain more and more of the product over time and eventually become, , brand ambassadors for that brand.

Which is another kind of , I guess positioning when you think about, , legacy. It's not about the brand, it's the people that purchase and what they do for the brand and they are your referrals. , in the property industry, you've got the likes of, you know, MVAC, , who have an incredible referral pro program and I guess, , repeat purchase of buyer , situation where, , they can launch a pro.

Project and more than 40% are repeat purchases. And I know that's something that we definitely, , focused on back at Crown Group days where we had that loyalty program and that sense of belonging and that sense of community whilst also attaching itself to a very much VIP experience. , and , if you were part of that circle.

Again, it fueled that, that sense of fomo and that sense of fear of missing out definitely

James Lawrence: on And . Yeah. You do see whether it's past pal pearls, , whether it's Ferrari, high-end brands doing so much more in the real world space.

Giverny Reid: Yeah.

James Lawrence: VIP events, , once in a lifetime experiences, things that can't.

Be purchased. Yeah. , which do attract to the brand and create that scarcity. And it's so interesting. And , the thing about this space is it does have this kind of almost contradictory effect where the price elasticity is inverted. Like typically the cheaper something is the more of it you sell.

Yeah. But in this space, it's with, as long as you get the other cue points. Right. , the more expensive something is, you'll actually find yourself more units. You don't want to be priced at the same, , price as the rest of the market for. High-end jewelry versus some, a mid-range piece, or you don't wanna be at the same price if a Birkin will sell, you'll sell more birkins at, you know, 30 grand a pop than you would if they were positioned at, you know.

But I

Giverny Reid: guess it's being tactical about that as well, because on the flip side, just because it's price more expensive doesn't necessarily allude to it being prestigious or exclusive or of. The same craft. And I think, , it's really, really easy to get wrong there. As I mentioned, that whole ecosystem around ensuring that both brands, strategy, storytelling, experience, , and even service, service is so important.

I, I appreciate we're in a digital and a very tactile world, but , once I purchase something, , what's the aftercare like as well? Um, really resonates and really can have, . The bigger oppression, , on a consumer long term. Not to mention, as I said, brand ambassadors and this idea of, , people ref referring ongoing, , being the biggest golden ticket really when it comes to, , securing a lead or locking in a deposit as well.

James Lawrence: Yeah, I think looking back at the, at your work at Crown and with the team at Crown. There was a real dream team. The dream, the dream, the dream team. Yeah. I'm

Giverny Reid: just dropping that in. Girls.

James Lawrence: You can just call yourself a dream team. You have someone else wants to call you that. We'll, we'll, we'll I'll run with it.

The dream team. Yeah. It it, , there was such a concerted effort at investing in the brand and I think a lot of developers at that moment in time, were still in that mindset of we will do all of the marketing on each individual property. Yeah. That we're building. Right. And and that wasn't the approach you guys took.

You, you guys were very much about, we wanna elevate the Crown brand, we wanna make it all these things aspirational , and prestigious and carry a certain cash with it. With the idea being that then when you went to sell a development, you'd be able to charge a price premium and you'd have more kind of demand there.

, is that true? , and have you found that other in the property space? Is that a model that is starting to be more commonly followed.

Giverny Reid: Yeah, absolutely. So funnily enough with, , for those, I guess listening to the podcast, crown Group was known as a luxury property developer and it really took, , the leader pole in that several years ago.

. Of all the project events. Now, we'd have these events. They'd be 2000 plus people, , budgets of over a million sponsorships. , they were quite extravagant, you know, um, champagne on tap, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That was the whole experience. We never ever received a single EOI or a deposit from a CLI customer.

People would say, oh my God. Like, what the hell? Why would you spend so much of your marketing budget? And what we found is. It generated so much brand awareness and so much publicity and ongoing, , communication and assets, , not only, , nationally, but internationally that we were able to build from that.

. Some really successful, , marketing campaigns that people already knew who we were versus I guess having no idea and being one of many was really important for us to obviously have a point of difference. So it's interesting that. You could spend quite a significant amount around generating an event and something that's very bespoke, but not necessarily generate any leads from it.

But it work in its own capacity elsewhere is really quite, , unique. And now we found that more and more developers are doing it if not doing it better. Um, whereby, , the VIP events are in fact generating EOY deposits because they are, . Really focusing on , a smaller group, they're focusing on more of a tailored kind of experience whereby the agents know everything about their clients coming through.

They're definitely, , creating this once in the lifetime money can't buy opportunity because again, as I said, luxury brands are moving from it being product focused to more experienced and aspirational led. , there was a really interesting, , quote that I , came across from another, , incredible marketer from Monogram Amy.

She was riding around, , this idea of FOMO , is still fundamental and, , the major trigger for, , luxury marketing. But at the same time, the idea of loss and aversion hits two times more powerful, , than the sense of gaining.

So buyers , don't fear not having it. They fear regretting the moment they couldn't have it and they missed out as a result. So I think. This is a really interesting kind of positioning when it comes to that experience is, , walking away and then going, fuck. , I've said no, or I haven't ha I haven't committed to something and now as a result I've lost it.

I've lost that chance. So, , we wanna create that world where right then and there they're able to lock in a decision and ensure that they aren't going to be in a world of regret.

James Lawrence: And you do see that. Played out so effectively in the luxury space, right? . Luxury property. It's always scarcity.

Fear of loss. This is, you know, last one left. It's the only one available. Rolls Royce with the very limited number of, , cars being produced every year. They could make, yeah, more cars if they wanted to and make more money, but that they know the power of. The fear of loss and scarcity. I think, , once again, it's , not my, fear of interest, but the Birkin is, , highly limited, right?

With wait lists and the idea if you don't make a decision, , someone else , will take , your place and absolutely people that value those things. Will act, right? Because they wanna be in that exclusive club that gives you that, access that no one else has.

Giverny Reid: Absolutely. And it's funny how those kind of things are still going up in value versus again, , mass marketing and mass kind of commodities are obviously they still have a purpose and the place and they still retain, hold some sort of value.

But yeah, you look at, , those, , landmark areas like , pots Point. Uh, s and things like that just continue to dominate when it comes to, , capital gains and things like that. So,

James Lawrence: yeah. So interesting. , what about mistakes? What are some of those mistakes that you have seen? Clients that you've worked with or things you've been exposed to in the luxury space that just are like, ugh, really?

Like we're trying to position ourselves over here and then we're off kind of doing these things over here. Oh.

Giverny Reid: , well, definitely from a creative agency standpoint over complicating, uh, like I think at end only , a lot of us appreciate less is more. , we often see brands come to us and they've only rebranded one or two years ago, but they've gone, , too complicated, too complex, loud, clunky, all the rest of it.

So it's kind of like being self-assured and clear. As, um, your brand positioning, but also reflected through your aesthetics and your communication ongoing is really, really important. So we see that happen all the time. , it's incredible and really important to engage the right people and the right teams to sell specifically a project, , for example, but.

, you will also need to ensure that everything continues on. So creative agencies, and again, like, and only , we don't wanna be , seen as just that transactional conversation. We produce a brand, you go off and you think you're gonna sell something. We wanna be part of the conversations and we very much wanna act like an extension of your team and understand the challenges from the sales team.

What the. Architects are envisioning how the builders are , proceeding and can we capture that on video and show, , the craft and process to our consumers and stuff like that. There's a, again, that 360, integration of so many teams that needs to be, , definitely considered.

It can't just be very ad hoc. , otherwise again, it just, it feels clunky. It feels like there's no, . Consistency and a lot of things can, honestly, you can spend a whole heap of money and then they just fall to the waste because they aren't, , seeing things through correctly. , digital relies on creative and creative relies on sales, updating us on how they're going with so forth and all the rest of it.

And then you need a developer that's actually committed to, , wanting to. Not just take risks, but also back what he's engaged experts to do as well. And again, that's another mistake is trusting sometimes, , teams and different, , suppliers in generating the best solution and outcome for, , the brief, more or less.

Yeah.

James Lawrence: And then I guess in terms of where we're at 2025, all marketing just seems to be at this, , kind of inflection point, right? Where there's so much change on the horizon. , with your clients that are most forward facing or , your team members, where do you see this space going?

Like, what are those trends that , we should be thinking about?

Giverny Reid: I think. Honestly, it's such a broad question and there's so many different layers to it. Again, from a property perspective, , it's a no brainer that AI is obviously, and everyone's talking about it, is going to be quite a disruptor , in our industry from a creative standpoint.

, we've got capacity to create video and I guess more, , immediate visuals and things like that. We can even, , generate a logo, but. Obviously, , you don't wanna do that. , I need to very much be a pioneer for the designers out there, like an agency that is able to understand you, your brief, your audience is far greater than AI will ever be in my view.

But, , it's really interesting to see it, I guess, in the sales capacity whereby you've got things like, , chat bots and , as I mentioned that ongoing quick. Um, a service that clients want. , they wanna feel special and they want their questions answered and so forth. And I guess, , AI is able to provide that kind of service.

, furthermore you've got obviously the things like, , VR and , augmented reality and stuff like that, very much coming into, , how we create renders and visuals and, , future. Ideas and customizations and then following for that. We are seeing a lot more, , demand for, , clients being able to amalgamate or customize interiors and stuff like that as part of the service.

, whereas I guess traditionally, , it's kind of you buy into what you're given. , but we are very much able to, . Personalize the experience as well as the product at the end of the day to suit people's different needs. , and even , through Covid, naturally, you know, there was demands for things that have never ever been thought of before from, , pet spas to Amazon package, , sanitization rooms.

What was the other one I saw the other day? , different types, gyms, , now must have saunas, infrared, ice bath and things like that. So there's definitely, a lot more of those viral trends coming into the living experiences and then naturally, obviously as well, , ensuring that projects are centered around amenity, convenience and that kind of connection as always.

, typically a more, , in demand and definitely positioned as a luxury product versus something that's slightly. , out outside of certain zones.

James Lawrence: Yeah, , it's such a delicate balance, isn't it? If we're talking outside of property, these brands.

Rolex, , Louis Vuitton, whatever else. These proceed digital, right? They're these heritage brands and that history and that almost the fact that things haven't changed. Yeah, it's this kind of, the legacy, , the provenance of the brand, the craftsmanship, the heritage. It's all , these things that in some way.

Timeless and perpetual. Yeah. But then it's the reality that so much of the way that we all interact now is online. It is digital, but digital is kind of temporary and , it's fast paced and it's changing. And often brands are probably dropping their standards when they're moving into digital.

And it's like, well, if you wanna engage in TikTok, you have to do it in a way that your brand guidelines are, , happy to be stripped away a little bit. So it is this, how does a brand that, need to move into this space and play here, but equally. How do you do it in a way which doesn't , erode, I guess the, um, you don't overexpose the brand Right.

And do it in a way that kind of runs contrary to how we feel about luxury brands.

Giverny Reid: Yeah. I don't think I've actually seen property really. I guess dominate or be done well in social media spaces and TikTok and stuff. Obviously fashion brands, again, , car brands and so forth have really, , shifted the game when it comes to that.

You, you can no longer walk into a Tiffany's jeweler. You can go and try on the items virtually. That's one thing. Again, fashion shows you get to watch live in VR. , which is pretty, , unique. , there's just, there's so much out there in terms of, , these AI generated images and, , you don't know what's real, what is, , at the moment that's, is definitely cutting through in the digital space.

Um. , I think immersion is the new flex for, , luxury and how we do it.

Is definitely, , shifted from just, a website experience to social media, TikTok, and even, , the, that crazy lady who literally showcases a product for less than two seconds and has generated about $130 million or something crazy in the,

James Lawrence: in the.

Giverny Reid: Yeah, well if you're telling me, um , it's just incredible to see where things are going, but also slightly daunting because it is shifting and evolving so rapidly. Like who knows where we'll be, my husband, for example, , has been dabbling in AI and using AI to recreate himself and , play out scripts, and it's really quite difficult to even know , what's real and what's not.

, in that capacity. And , agents, again, from a property perspective can be in multiple places at any given time. If we set up, , , the avatars correctly and things like that, which is, yeah, it's pretty crazy.

James Lawrence: It's interesting stuff and I think your point's an interesting one around it.

Not necessarily being done well in property, but being done so well in other spaces. And we had, , Laura Roberts who heads up invent out here on the pod. . Back into last year, I think it was, and she was very bullish on. That kind of , big brand, luxury brand. Metaverse the, she talked around, I think it was Ferrari being the case study during Covid when cars couldn't be, , test driven, but actually creating that experience , in an augmented reality set up.

And it is interesting your point around fashion shows online and whatever else, but , I don't know if that's because the property purchase is just. Such a big one in terms of that emotional pull. Yeah. Or , whether , you haven't just nailed it Jiv and you've, you've got, you know, some technology that you need to roll out to take to your clients.

I definitely,

Giverny Reid: yeah, definitely think me and many other property markers out there, there, there's a huge job. Out there. Having said that, like I said, you know, the renders and the motion and animation component is incredible. There's some amazing, , things being done in the property space there, and again, it looks like the real deal, but I think from , a unique.

Immersion or something that's a little bit more, , viral or on trend with things I don't think property is and , yeah, you've nailed it. I don't think it necessarily needs to because it is such a different and a much more emotional purchase that requires now more months. More touchpoints, more, , I guess one-on-one face-to-face kind of conversations.

It also involves more people. , it's no longer just the sole decision or the husband and wife. It's going through the family. , checking through friends and researching, as I said about the developers and stuff like that. That process is a lot, , more time consuming this time.

So. , something that's 30 seconds on TikTok I don't think is necessarily going to be the decision factor for, , property. Having said that, we've had great success with clients using video, obviously as a driver. Yeah. To, , be transparent on, , the build the process, what your construction team is doing, , what the agent is saying about the area and yeah.

So. There are elements of course,

James Lawrence: , feels appropriate. Yeah. Um, j been awesome having you on, on the pod to talk around kind of high-end markets. , we finished the pod with the same question, which is what's the best bit of career advice that you'd give to an in-house marketer?

Giverny Reid: I think it comes from having started just stand only recently, and it's like if you, if your gut's telling you to do something and. You've got imposter syndrome, all the rest of it. You've just gotta take a chance and at least know that you've tried and you've given it a good leap because it could be the best decision in the world.

And hands down, working with my team has just been the best thing I've done. It's probably,

James Lawrence: it's dream is a dream Team 2.0.

Giverny Reid: Yeah. Dream team two, 2.0. Yeah, for sure.

James Lawrence: And that's both, both of, I think like for me, yeah, I think the gut. This is probably something we should listen to more. And uh, I think the other thing is yeah, take, take the leap, right?

I think you've gotta back yourself and, um, I think everyone has imposter syndrome.

Giverny Reid: Oh,

James Lawrence: if you don't have imposter syndrome, you probably have some real issues

Giverny Reid: , for sure. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, James. It's been awesome. Thank you. It was really good to catch up.